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You
have been with him, you must have been with him.
Otherwise you would not have asked these questions,
you would never have come here. What about the
other people, the other six billion people? Why
don't they come to satsang? What about your neighbours,
what about your parents, what about your society?
Why only you? You have been chosen, you have been
chosen for this purpose.
When
you know It, you will know It in an instant. In
that instant, you will know that nothing ever
happened before, and that nothing will ever happen
in the future. In one moment you thought you were
bound. In that same moment you will find that
you are free. In that instant of awakening, you
will know that there is no freedom, no bondage.
You will know, 'I am what I am'.
Papa,
can the mind assist in the process of realising
freedom?
Yes,
it can. Mind is your foe and mind is your friend
also. When attached to sense objects it is your
enemy. But when it aspires to come to satsang,
the same mind is a friendly mind. It will give
you freedom.
That's
a big relief for some reason. When we speak of
realising freedom, who is realising freedom?
This
'who' itself is realising freedom. The 'who' who
is asking the question is the same 'who' who feels
that this 'who' is now bound. After having known
this, 'who' will show its oneness. 'Look here,
Jeff,' it will say, 'I am the same "who" who brought
you here!'
It
was Saint Francis who said, 'What you are looking
for is who is looking'.
Yes,
yes. When you only say 'Who?', w-h-o, where do
you find it, tell me? Where? You have to add something.
Only then will the reply come. Who are you? If
you simply say 'Who?', who then will appear to
you? Simply say Who? Who? Who?'
I'm
going to start sounding like an owl in a minute.
You say that the force that has brought us here,
that brought us to satsang, will take care of
us. What force is that?
The
force which has brought you here, the force which
is speaking your words, the force which is asking
the questions: that force is the same. The force
has now become the questioner. The same force
is now asking. And this force is also telling
you, 'Keep quiet!'
[Shaking
his head.] After you, Papaji, I could interview
anybody.
In
the scientific view everything that we perceive,
from an apple to pure grace, is the result of
neural signals and chemical processes. From the
biological perspective the miracle of consciousness
has a direct physical cause. How can we be certain
that consciousness, awareness, awakeness is not
just a chemical reaction, and that the realisation
of emptiness is no more than a mere quieting of
our brain cells?
Science
has done very well in its researches. I don't
have any quarrels with science. We are living
in the twentieth century and we are very lucky
to enjoy the benefits of the results of scientific
research. I can't reject scientific discoveries.
Without them you could not have come here from
California in just twenty hours. So, we should
accept them. But where does the intellect which
discovers come from? Discoveries have been made
about the nature of the cells in the brain. But
where these cells get their energy from has not
yet been discovered. I hope that this will one
day be discovered.
It
is emptiness itself which animates these cells.
These cells then send signals throughout the body
to the billions and trillions of cells in the
body which activate thoughts, movement of the
limbs, the senses, the mind, etc. This is creation.
In the beginning there is emptiness. Emptiness
animates the cells, and the cells then make the
intellect and the mind work. Then, once there
is mind, the body, the senses and the objects
they see, arise. All these perceptions are registered
via the cells.
Each
cell is giving you a new incarnation. Each cell.
Because what you desire will enter directly into
the cells and lie hidden there. These desires
will emerge from the cells at the appropriate
moment and reincarnate in other cells. It is the
cells which have reincarnated and become mind.
Your question was that maybe emptiness is just
something chemical happening in the brain. But
who is aware of this chemical happening? Some
higher force, some force which is subtler than
the cells is conscious of what is happening to
the cells. It is aware. What is that force?
Grace,
atman. The larger context in which we are
all existing in all forms. In asking this question
I want you and everyone in this room to understand
that I feel grace in your presence, Papaji. I
am not denying that, I am just trying to understand
and to remove the doubt. So my answer would be
'grace'. It sounds to me like a force that must
encompass everything, even more than everything.
It is something that is larger than everything.
But it also sounds to me like something I am being
asked to believe in, something I must have faith
in. Is faith in the supreme force a prerequisite
for freedom? Must we have faith in this force
to awaken to freedom? Does what you are giving
us require faith?
The
word 'faith' is used by the founders of religions.
When you say the word 'faith' you must go back
to the founder of some particular set of beliefs.
Faith means following someone from the past. When
you speak the word 'faith', you must see that
your mind goes to the past. Tell me any instance
where there is a question of faith that doesn't
belong to the past.
For
me, the word 'faith' is associated with religions,
dead religions.
This
word takes you to images from the past. 'Have
faith in this god or that god, in this statue
or that statue.' I don't tell the children who
are here to have faith in anything from the past.
I don't teach faith at all. I teach Knowledge.
Knowledge has nothing to do with faith. Faith
brings you to the past, Knowledge to the present
moment. Between atman and grace there is
no difference. When you use the word atman,
the mind does not hold onto any person, any thing,
any concept. When you utter the word 'grace',
you should not think that it is coming from such
and such a person, or an image or a thing. Grace
is more than space, higher, subtler, more supreme
than even space. Where does the space arise from?
That is . Through whose grace does the
sun shine? The shining of the sun is a manifestation
of that grace. The moon in the night, the hardness
of a rock, the softness of a flower, the flow
of a river, the movement of air and the waves
of the ocean. What is this thing which moves the
air? Not the movement itself, not the movement
of the waves on the surface of the ocean. I am
talking about that ultimate power which is the
source of the movement: That.
It
is the ultimate mystery.
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